In this episode of the Career Adventure Podcast, host Paul Fisher interviews Max Dworin, VP at Cintrifuse Capital. Max's multifaceted career includes roles in startups, corporate sectors, economic development, politics, and venture capital.
They discuss Max's philosophy on nonlinear career paths, the significance of keeping options open early in one's career, and the concept of 'happy wanderers' who thrive on varied experiences. Max shares insights on the dual mission of Cintrifuse Capital, which aims to drive financial returns while fostering local economic development in Cincinnati.
He also reflects on his journey from founding a tequila seltzer startup to becoming a venture investor, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, networking, and having a give-first mentality. This episode is filled with valuable career advice, personal anecdotes, and a deep dive into the Cincinnati startup ecosystem and venture capital.
Listen to the full episode. Even if you don’t think you’re a happy wanderer, you’re sure to pick up a nugget or three for your own career adventures.
Core Themes
Max talks about some themes you may have heard before: having a mission; giving first; knowing your interests. But, there is more. Take note of these themes for your own career adventures.
A Dual Mission
What’s your mission? We all need one. Much has been written on the value of having a mission in the work we do. It helps provide purpose. It helps us filter career opportunities to avoid those that aren’t well aligned with our goals.
Max discussed Cintrifuse’s mission in the context of his career. He takes great pride in the dual purpose mission. By leading Direct Investments, he is not only helping the Cincinnati ecosystem prosper, but he’s also helping himself. It’s a win-win.
“We have this dual mission of improving the ecosystem, making more startups, more technology, more entrepreneurs, more innovators is going to create a more dynamic city that I will obviously benefit from as a citizen.”
Feed Your Range
Are you able to operate on multiple levels? The best operators can do more than roll up their sleeves and get dirty. They can take a step back, look at the forest through the trees, and paint a compelling picture to others.
Max has bought into two key skills: ‘getting sh!t’ done and storytelling. For him, both are important. He learned to ‘get sh!t done’ as COO of a startup. He learned to communicate effectively working in politics. Now, both skills come in handy as someone focused on equipping founders working on big things with investment capital.
“My bias is towards action…half the battle is just like putting in the work…I'm also maybe despite what you might feel after listening to me on this podcast, I do think I am a pretty good storyteller. Storyteller doesn't imply that there's any untruths there. How do you get people to buy into what you're building, to buy into your vision of the future? That's something that I learned working for Chuck Schumer, who is an incredible communicator.”
Lead With The Problem
How often do you lead with your idea before summarizing the problem? Many of us start off with our ideas first. We jump right in without ensuring people are nodding their heads in agreement with the problem to be solved.
Max learned to lead with the problem as a political communications leader. He connects this to his work investing in and counseling startups today. Those that ground people in the important problem tend to be better communicators. This applies to business and to careers. We are constantly selling ourselves, whether it’s in job interviews or persuading coworkers. A foundational technique in sales is to summarize the situation or the problem prior to sharing your idea.
“When you're talking about issues, leading with the problem or the pain point is much more powerful than leading with a solution. You have to make people understand and contextualize the problem before anybody gives a hoot about the solution. There's parallels in the startup space, right?”
Paths Start Closing?
Do you ever look book wistfully at a career path you wish you’d taken? As time progresses, it becomes harder and harder to try out new paths. Some are downright “impossible.” It’s pretty hard for a 46 year-old accountant to try to become a MLB player. Time simply isn’t on our side.
Some paths are possible, but they require more effort to overcome the inertia or sunk costs made into the chosen path. Max shared advice he got from a mentor that was about keeping as many career paths open as possible. It reminded me of similar advice I received from a former boss. He told me to consider the external value of the skills you are receiving with a job when choosing it. Jobs with a greater number of transferable skills are thus more valuable and help you keep paths open.
“until you are damn sure that you love something, and that you can see a future for yourself that you like down one path, keep as many paths and doors open as you possibly can because they really do start closing. They start closing because you just become an expert at certain things, your network starts building at a certain place, life happens…”
Rubbing Elbows
How often do you attend networking events? Do you go to the same ones with the same people? Even if you are an introvert, it’s important to network regularly. As an involved father, I know how hard it can be. Networking is tough but is valuable career currency. You get to develop relationships with people you can help and who can help you.
Max reminds us that we all gotta get out there and rub elbows. We need to interact with others because serendipity doesn’t just happen. It takes getting into your community to make luck happen.
“Rubbing elbows can be have a negative connotation, but in this instance, I think it's a positive thing you've got to put yourself into spaces and around people in order for the serendipity to happen, you're not going to get anywhere in general.”
The Value of Happy Wanderers
Are you a happy wanderer, someone who is “OK” with not having it all figured out and thriving on the unknown? Not everyone is. For some, that path is way to scary. That makes sense. We all differ on the risk taking vs. risk aversion scale.
Max was reminded of a discussion he had with a Yale MBA admissions representative, who shared the term ‘happy wanderer’. Hearing the term gave him confidence that his path is valued. Remember, if you are a happy wanderer or want to be one, the path is valued and it will only become more valuable in future generations.
“There's one category of applicant that he loves the most and that I fit in which, he calls, maybe the school calls, the happy wanderers. These are people who are I don't want to say wandering through their career, that sounds bad, but thrive on the unknown and are okay with not having every step figured out. Those are the sort of, in his mind, those lifeblood of the class cause they bring a ton of perspective and that sort of has stuck with me that I guess I'm a happy wanderer and that is actually valued.”
Hear Max’s Extended Story
Max is developing dual meaning one investment at a time. He found his way to the venture capital and economic development space by dabbling with a variety of paths. He has put to use valuable lessons learned in politics. He is breathing life into his career and others’.
Go beyond the themes. Listen to the full episode. Max provides more insight to how he is confidently forging a unique path in the startup ecosystem.
Enjoy the episode! Thanks for you support!
Paul G. Fisher
Additional Perspective -
We talked a wide range of topics. Here are a few additional things Max and Paul discussed. Check ‘em out.
Zero to One - Max mentioned Peter Thiel’s book Zero to One. Whether you like Thiel’s politics or not, it’s a good read. It provides a lot of perspective on creating value in any business or organization.
Give First Mentality - Max also discussed the idea of giving first without expecting anything in return. Here’s a short read to help spark some thoughts.
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